How we can all smash interviews like Dizzee Rascal
The rapper has what it takes to feel at ease when questioned by the white establishment. All we need is his energy, resilience and talent
Dizzee Rascal has five No1s, has collaborated with the Arctic Monkeys, David Byrne and Shakira and is the youngest rapper to win the Mercury music prize. Baroness Amos is the first Black woman to serve as a cabinet minister, the first Black head of any Oxford college but, as far as I know, hasn’t performed an England song with James Corden. Putting two high achievers (Amos and Rascal NOT Corden) on the same show might’ve seemed a good idea at the time but the way it was handled resulted in a silly debate about Britain not ‘yet’ having a Barack Obama figure. Big reveal: the Newsnight interview aired in 2008 and we still couldn’t be further away from our Obama moment.
This Newsnight clip is embarrassing for almost all concerned. But when you strip away the tired format and analyse what “Mr Rascal” is saying then you realize what a great role model the MC is. More pertinently he stays true to himself despite the tone of the interview and the dead-end questions. It’s an achievement that shows how wise he is because British political broadcasting is a white environment where people like Jeremy Paxman (St Catharine's College, Cambridge) and Emily Maitlis (Queens' College, Cambridge) interview political types who went to similar institutions. Ordinarily, for people of colour to not be mocked they have to be as slick as Amos and already embedded in the establishment. But bending to the system comes at a price for most people of colour and that toll is what I will be examining today.
Rascal, by the way, is the ultimate shapeshifter as his love of Nirvana shows.
The people who commission my work are always white. In fact any gatekeeper for any creative endeavour is likely to be white. This poses a unique dilemma for me when I pitch an article about race or racism - a high percentage of my writing, especially as I position myself as an anti-racism campaigner. The conundrum I always consider is will this person understand my perspective?
It’s 50/50 to be honest and it’s only that high because I tend to send pitches to commissioning editors that I know. To make matters worse my job, as you can imagine, comes with a lot of rejection (and a surprising amount of ghosting. Why do people say they’re interested and then don’t reply?). When someone thinks your idea stinks it’s made worse when they say that your experience isn’t relatable. Or not authentic. Or I’m not ethnic enough. Excuse me while I pour myself a gin and tonic…
The real reason why I endure the rejection, coupled with the profession’s inevitable low pay, uncertainty and online abuse, might surprise you. It’s not because of the flexibility, or not having a boss, or even the way I can work anywhere in the world (Covid has more than taken the sheen of this).
It’s because I don’t have the huge amounts of energy needed to attend interviews where I’m judged by white inquisitors. I have too many war wounds, lack Rascal’s resilience and find myself embittered by the whole process. Retelling my experiences now hopefully will help me deal with them and if I fail I won’t be asking for feedback on how I performed…
He sat on a judge’s bench. In an office. High above me. During my interview he would glance away from my CV, bark orders to various young white men who entered the room apologetically, and then sigh before asking me about my recent history degree. He was a middle-aged white man who was head of a legal publishing firm and I had applied for a copywriter job.
He thought studying African history was a waste of time and that any advancements countries, like Ethiopia had made were down to being “near the Med”. His confidence was unshakable, unlike mine which could easily be swayed by a light breeze (or a dismissive factually inaccurate argument). When I tried to ask him about the job he said the secretary would bring me up to speed on my way out. She just shook her shoulders and apologised for his brusqueness.
I told my flatmate how icky the whole situation made me and he was convinced that this guy liked me. A day later a rejection letter arrived in the post consisting of boiler-plated words at odds with the way I was spoken to during the kangaroo court-style interview.
Years later, in an interview for a charity I was asked what book I was currently reading. When I told them it was a Salmon Rushdie novel they frowned and they looked surprised that I would reveal this. Unlike the law publishing job they did give detailed feedback but it was just as unwelcome. Apparently, reading Rushdie showed I was not an “optimistic person”. The racial profiling was as obvious as it was ignorant especially as I was reading Midnight’s Children not The Satanic Verses.
The last job I had I nearly walked out of the interview because my eventual boss fetishised my childhood and spent a long time asking me why I had poor GSCE results compared to my three As at A-level. To think I accepted that job and the resulting years of bullying shows how much I have been gaslighted in my career.
The pauses in the Dizzee Rascal interview are almost more revealing than the words themselves. He’s said what he needs to say, why fill the air? Those pauses show what’s wrong with political discourse - answers are always long but devoid of content. Rascal speaks in the opposite way: punchy but full of meaning.
I've heard the gossip from the street to the slammer/ They're tryin' to see if Dizzee stays true to his grammer/ Being a celebrity don't mean shit to me/ Fuck the glitz and glamour, hey I'm with the blicks and gamma
Let’s face it, Jeremy Paxman (who revealed a few years ago that he was a Tory, quel surprise) is mocking him by calling him Mr Rascal. He probably finds it awkward calling him Dizzee and is too lazy to establish that his real-name is Dylan. For Paxman, Rascal is an alien from a different planet and to speak to him on equal terms is beneath the University Challenge host.
Paxman practically spits out his words when Introducing Rascal as “the well known rapper”. It’s the same tone he uses to witheringly dismiss the weather report or when a politician blusters with a non sequitur. The big smile Rascal greets this with warms my heart. It shows resilience. It shows experience. It shows class.
“And hip-hop artist, sorry.” Let’s just ramp up the cringe, Jez.
The first answer that Rascal gives (“Obama is mixed-race so he’s an immediate symbol of unity”) is manna from heaven for anyone mixed-race, like me. So often we’re seen as the opposite and don’t fit into our dual communities. This should have been explored further but Paxman ignores this insightful comment and also the next one about how hip-hop played a part in Obama’s election.
Paxman isn’t interested in that Obama referenced Jay Z's lyrics and Kanye West in speeches, released playlists on Spotify that included Nas, Chance the Rapper, Mos Def and Method Man, and was caught dancing to Drake's "Hot Line Bling" at a White House event.
Instead he just wants to know if we can expect an Obama in the UK. Well, Jeremy you might not like my answer to your question. We will never have an “Obama moment” because our class system is so deeply entrenched that any profession is choc full of people like you who went to the same university and private school. This white elite dismisses notions of racism and have a sense of fair play for their own kind. But their network blocks anyone of colour reaching positions of power and they use their educational and economical unfair advantage to stop any potential “Obamas” beating the system.
To make matters worse the interview is concluded by Paxman asking Rascal if he fancies being Prime Minister. He’s basically saying: “Lol wouldn’t it be funny if a black rapper was PM? He’d pimp up No 10.” Maitlis practically says this at the end as we descend into sub 30 Rock Tracy Morgan parodies.
Rascal’s a legend and he’s by far the best interviewee that has appeared on Newsnight despite the dumb format. He rises above the situation and is true to himself. For me to do the same requires energy and especially if I’m to reach my white counterparts who have had such a headstart in life. But I’m aware of my limitations: I’m not Dizzee Rascal and nor should I be. I’m just a guy who lives for writing.
And if Paxman were sitting in his judge’s bench interviewing a young Rascal for a job then he would send him a letter of rejection. More fool Jeremy. Rascal would be the best hire he would’ve ever made.
I was going to look at a film, Boston Kickout, next week. But I’m not sure if I will. I feel like writing 2,000 words on this guy singing primary school songs instead. Stay safe
